@ New Secret Fan & FBFan: This has been an interesting discussion; I especially appreciate your insights concerning high school football programs in our region. I wish your favorite teams the best of luck this season (unless they play Alhambra, of course).
@Ron Vrooman yes that is true, and CV barely beat Arcadia by a point last season, which reminded me of when they beat Arcadia 23-7 back 2012 when Arcadia was favored to win. 2019 was still 4 years ago, they may not be the worst team with LC stepping up but I doubt how same CV will have been back 2019 season. Also, the fact that that was a senior-heavy team, they have not been the same, so I doubt how much they will compete with Monrovia, Burroughs, Muir, Pasadena, but sure can compete with Arroyo. It otherwise is true the pandemic did negatively altered/impacted every team.
@ FBFan: Alhambra High’s football and baseball teams are somewhat better off financially than you suggest, since both programs benefit from having active booster clubs. All money raised by the booster clubs go to the specific teams they’re supporting.
I’m not aware of any booster clubs for the other sports at AHS, but then I don’t have time to follow them that closely. However, the marching band also has a booster club, which is great.
Any money that’s contributed directly to a team or to the AHS Athletic Department must be divided among all of the sports at the school; this arrangement is the result of a Title IX (gender equity) settlement that was negotiated around 15 years ago.
I wouldn’t call that socialism, though, because sports that don’t get a lot of fan support should receive at least minimum funding. But in my book, there’s nothing wrong with democratic socialism (with the emphasis always being placed on the “democratic” part). I don’t know of anyone who has ever refused their Social Security or Medicare benefits, which they and their employers have paid for, by the way.
Getting back to high school athletics, sports like basketball, softball, wrestling, tennis, swimming, water polo, and badminton are just as legitimate as those that draw the largest crowds. And don’t forget, girls’ flag football is now a thing in the CIF Southern Section, so we can add that to the list.
@ FBFan: My guess is that West Covina is aiming to be competitive, and soon, in the San Antonio League, which includes Chaffey High (located in Ontario), Don Lugo (in Chino), and Claremont. Don Lugo has been excellent in the past and is reportedly good this year, and the Claremont Wolfpack might be on the upswing as well.
While the Bulldogs will be taking on a couple of league opponents who are located in the Inland Empire, those schools are just a few miles inside San Bernardino County. West Covina’s location in the East San Gabriel Valley makes this arrangement possible, if not ideal.
The toughest road trips in this version of the San Antonio League will likely be the ones the Bulldogs will have to make to Don Lugo and Chaffey during the late Friday afternoon commute time.
In doing some research for my reply here, I was struck by the fact that several leagues in the East San Gabriel Valley/western San Bernardino County area have only four teams. What is CIF’s rationale for having such small leagues when league games are all-important for making the postseason and getting good playoff seedings? Could it be that the goal of the Southern Section is to give every school a greater probability of winning a league title at some point?
I believe that every league should have at least six teams. I mean, why play a ten-game regular season, with six or seven nonleague games, when overall records don’t seem to have much value anymore?
Getting back to the subject of West Covina, the Bulldogs could help round out any one of these smaller leagues if things don’t work out well in the San Antonio League.
In my opinion, West Covina could easily join the Valle Vista League (Diamond Ranch, Los Altos, Northview, San Dimas); the Sierra League (Chino, Covina, Pomona, Rowland); or the Hacienda League (Diamond Bar, Nogales, Ontario, Walnut). I think any of those leagues would make slightly better sense geographically for West Covina, and the Valle Vista League would be the best fit in terms of competitive balance.
As for Castaic, it faces a tough challenge competing in a league with West Ranch, Valencia, Golden Valley, Saugus, Canyon, and Hart (which has been down the last two years but is usually good).
But, as you said, Castaic’s options are extremely limited. The closest schools to the north are way over the mountains in Kern County, and I don’t think that being in a league with the likes of Westlake, Oaks Christian, and Calabasas is realistic, either. I don’t believe any other possibilities are feasible at all.
Castaic’s best chance right now is to play .500 ball (or something close to that) and get an at-large berth in a lower playoff division thanks to a strength-of-schedule boost. The current playoff format gives schools like Castaic at least an outside shot at making it to the postseason.
@ New Secret Fan: Your latest suggestions for reorganizing the Almont, Mission Valley, Pacific, and Rio Hondo Leagues make considerable sense from the standpoints of competitive balance and geography.
The main difference I have with you here is that I’d keep Crescenta Valley in the Pacific League. While the Falcons have really struggled the last two years, it should be remembered that they went 14-0 and won a Southern Section title in 2019. I’m banking on the idea that the 2021 and ’22 seasons were a Covid-influenced aberration, because the Falcons were a consistent playoff contender for years before the pandemic hit.
Unfortunately, I get the feeling that revising some of the leagues in a meaningful way isn’t a priority for the CIF Southern Section, just like scrapping its wacky playoff format or cracking down on recruiting aren’t priorities, either. We can keep submitting proposals, though; somebody might listen someday.
This would also be for football only much like other areas are doing, therefore transportation is once a week as opposed to other sports that play 2-3 times a week.
Besides, football is the sport that drives the bus so that should take priority. Perhaps it doesn’t in Alhambra district since it’s well documented that the football teams have to share all of their fundraising efforts with the other activities but that level of Socialism is a conversation for another time.
While you are correct about Geography, you have to take a look at what other areas are doing around you. Orange County and Mt. SAC have all gone competitive equity balances. This is why West Covina is in a league with schools
in Ontario. And in OC, you can have a North OC team traveling to South OC.
If you care about Geography, then the foothill region- which is the one that my new leagues is comprised of- you must really rethink the boundaries set by CIF. Should teams in Valencia be in the same region as teams from Bellflower? Probably not, but that’s the way CIF has it aligned. If you’re Castaic, you can’t like being in a league with West Ranch but you have nowhere else to go. Maybe with the Burbank schools???
@Rom Vrooman you are not wrong at all. Some schools more distance away are honestly better off competing as nonleagues like examples you mentioned. I do think Almont and Mission Valley should be as follows:
Almont: Alhambra, Montebello, Schurr, South Pasadena, San Marino, San Gabriel
Mission Valley: Gabrielino, Mark Keppel, Mountain View, La Puente, Workman, Temple City
Pacific: Arroyo, Monrovia, Burbank, John Burroughs, John Muir, Pasadena
Rio Hondo: Arcadia, Rosemead, Crescenta Valley, La Canada, El Monte, SEM
Bell Gardens should replace La Serna in the Del Rio league, and La Serna and La Habra indeed should move into Gateway league in exchange for some of the deflated Gateway league teams into Del Rio and Freeway.
@ New Secret Fan & FBFan: Well, both of you have worked hard on your proposals to revise many of the leagues in the CIF Southern Section. Your collective efforts are impressive.
I believe that many of the projected matchups make sense, but it’s a big mistake to group together schools that are extreme distances apart. (For example, putting Castaic in the same league with Gahr and Cerritos.) Road trips of that magnitude would add to fuel and maintenance costs for school district bus fleets, and they would be a logistical nightmare.
Geography must be taken into consideration, along with competitive balance, when it comes to reorganizing the leagues that need to be changed the most. Looking at the issue close to home, the Almont, Mission Valley, and Del Rio Leagues could all be improved by moving a grand total of 3-5 teams.
As I suggested before, Mark Keppel should go from the Almont League into the Mission Valley League, and in return, Arroyo should move from the Mission Valley into the Almont. La Serna needs to move from the Del Rio League into a stronger league that includes, say, Downey and Warren. Then, one or two schools that are located reasonably close to Whittier and Pico Rivera could replace La Serna in the Del Rio.
Changes definitely need to be made to some of our high school football leagues, but I think that those changes can be accomplished locally and more practically.
New [(secret)] Moors, (Ayala) Bulldog, and Wolfpack Fan
(Sorry for my late replies, I been pretty busy lately)
@Ron Vrooman yeah true, while Monrovia hasn’t been the same since 2015, I don’t see their talent going anywhere either, same with Arroyo since 2017-2018. It is true Monrovia and Arroyo would kick Arcadia , Rosemead, and the two El Monte schools mentioned easily. Arroyo in Almont and Keppel in Mission Valley, but the thing, they still won’t have competitive edge against El Monte, SEM, or Rosemead. Arroyo would compete greatly with Alhambra, SG, and the three Montebello schools though.
Oh yeah, I saw for Alhambra adding La Salle, which is a good first real test. That is a good first step. Still would honestly be better if they scrap TC off their schedule, which is what I mean. At one time, Arcadia had a tradition of booking the likes of St. Francis, Monrovia, and Temple City to their schedule then after 2011, they cut TC off their schedule, after 2012, St. Francis, and following the 2016 season, then Coach Policky decided to move on from Monrovia, where after 2016, Crescenta Valley cut St. Francis off their nonleague, 2016, Verdugo Hills, and 2017, La Cañada (although Arcadia did put Monrovia back in for a little but as we can see, that now is gone again and CV for now has LC back also for now); if Arcadia and CV have been able to end ties with their once respective rivals, so can Alhambra with TC-it would benefit Alhambra when the time comes to move on. Alhambra has already dominated TC in recent years, and they can beat SEM and HH Wilson; South Pas would be a good potential on tier though; still would be better for the two to be in a same league.
@FB Fan I agree Claremont would easily blow out Alhambra, but I think Alhambra and Irvine can compete. Claremont would be better scheduling the likes of Muir and Burroughs to their nonleague. Even for the Moors to replace TC with Troy or Canyon Country could be a good start. Like how I think Corona Centennial should get out of their league with their district opponents for easily mowing them down, at one point, even Valencia should’ve gotten out of the Foothill League before they deflated in recent years after 2019, I agree LS should get out of the Del Rio League. Bell Gardens would be able to compete with everyone else in that league. LS being in the league with Warren, Downey, Paramount would be better, they and La Habra can all compete with each other (LH should also get out of their league).
For “Rio Hondo/Pacific- Crescenta Valley, San Marino, Arcadia, Burroughs”, I do think with Burroughs rebuilding, they can beat CV, SM, Arcadia, so that may not be a perfect alignment. Burbank, CV, Arcadia, SM would make sense, but the “League 5- La Canada, Crescenta Valley, Paramount, Schurr, Burbank, Arcadia” would be a more competitive edge for them all. I do think Arcadia can still beat San Marino most of the years. “League 6- Montebello, Castaic, Whittier, San Marino, Gahr, Cerritos” would be a fairer edge for SM. “Almont/Rio Hondo/Pacific- San Gabriel, Alhambra, La Canada, Pasadena Poly, South Pasadena,(Combine middle/bottom Almont with Middle Rio Hondo)” definitely looks fairer than “League 7- Alhambra, Pioneer, El Monte, Pasadena Poly, Lynwood, Santa Fe” in some respects. “MVL/Rio Hondo- Gabrielino, SEM, EM, Rosemead, Temple City, Keppel, Hoover (Bottom feeder league)”, SEM, EM, Rosemead would easily beat the lower half. I do like your “Suburban/SGV/DRL- Downey, Warren, La Serna, Paramount, La Mirada, Mayfair (La Serna out of DRL. You have a league equal to the Baseline in the I.E. if not better)”, and “League 1- Warren, Downey, West Ranch, La Serna, Pasadena, Saugus”; “League 2- Valencia, Golden Valley, Mayfair, La Mirada, Muir, Hart”; “League 3- Monrovia, Bellflower, Norwalk, Burroughs, Dominguez, Canyon” (Do you mean Canyon as in Canyon Country?)
OR you can redo the whole thing the way the Mt. SAC region did by using CalPreps ratings with 6 team leagues and completely forego traditional rivalries and proximity One thing to keep in mind about the west end schools of the Mid Valley area is that the teams from the Foothill League are a part of their CIF league alignment area as well. So you could be looking at trips to Six Flags. If you did it this way, it would look like this:
League 1- Warren, Downey, West Ranch, La Serna, Pasadena, Saugus
League 2- Valencia, Golden Valley, Mayfair, La Mirada, Muir, Hart
League 3- Monrovia, Bellflower, Norwalk, Burroughs, Dominguez, Canyon
League 4- So. Pasadena, El Rancho, Arroyo, San Gabriel, Bell Gardens, California
League 5- La Canada, Crescenta Valley, Paramount, Schurr, Burbank, Arcadia
League 6- Montebello, Castaic, Whittier, San Marino, Gahr, Cerritos
League 7- Alhambra, Pioneer, El Monte, Pasadena Poly, Lynwood, Santa Fe
League 8- Hoover, Rosemead, Gabrielino, South El Monte, Artesia, Temple City
League 9- Glenn, Mountain View, Glendale, Firebaugh, Keppel
You’re all over the place but have some good takes too. Alhambra playing Claremont and Irvine? No. Bell Gardens to the Del Rio with La Serna? Heck No!
But some of your other league realignment takes make a lot of sense. It would actually have to start with La Serna going in the league with Downey and Warren. From there, adjustments to the Del Rio can be made with the old Suburban league teams and the current Almont league teams while the 605 league goes through a major overhaul. Got to also keep distance slightly in consideration but not too much. Demographics and socio economics of the neighborhoods need to be a MAJOR contributor. Here’s a shot in the dark kind of league alignment for the teams in the West region of the Mid Valley area.
Suburban/SGV/DRL- Downey, Warren, La Serna, Paramount, La Mirada, Mayfair (La Serna out of DRL. You have a league equal to the Baseline in the I.E. if not better)
DRL/Suburban/605- Cal, Santa Fe, Norwalk, Bellflower, Gahr, Cerritos (Combine the middle teams from DRL and Suburban while adding top 605 team)
605/SGV- Lynwood, Firebaugh, Pioneer, Glenn, Artesia (A bottom feeder league of the 605 area)
DRL/Almont/MVL- El Rancho, Whittier, Bell Gardens, Schurr, Montebello, Arroyo (Combine middle DRL and top Almont teams. Move Arroyo out of MVL).
Almont/Rio Hondo/Pacific- San Gabriel, Alhambra, La Canada, Pasadena Poly, South Pasadena,(Combine middle/bottom Almont with Middle Rio Hondo)
Rio Hondo/Pacific- Crescenta Valley, San Marino, Arcadia, Burroughs
Rio Hondo/Pacific- Monrovia, Pasadena, Muir, Burbank. (No reason Monrovia shouldn’t have been in this league a LONG time ago)
MVL/Rio Hondo- Gabrielino, SEM, EM, Rosemead, Temple City, Keppel, Hoover (Bottom feeder league).
@ New Secret Fan: Your suggested revisions of the “Almost,” Mission Valley, and Rio Hondo Leagues sound pretty good; I think they could work out well if CIF actually took you up on them.
All three of those league alignments would be competitive, in my opinion. The only potential flaw that I can see, at least for the short term, is that Monrovia and Arroyo might still be too good for the competition in the revised Rio Hondo League. Both schools have just made coaching changes, but it’s likely that they’ll retain a significant edge in athletic talent.
A simple fix that would promote competitive equity in both the Almont and Mission Valley Leagues would be to trade Mark Keppel for Arroyo. In other words, both leagues would remain the same, except that Mark Keppel would be in the Mission Valley League and Arroyo would be in the Almont League. Keppel might have competitive games against Gabrielino and Mountain View from the very start, and Arroyo would have some stiffer challenges than it currently does during league play.
I don’t believe Alhambra’s nonleague schedule is going to change dramatically in the near future unless we start dominating our opponents. This year’s game against La Salle, which I believe will be our first, could be a real test. South Pasadena has typically been a difficult foe, and playing the Tigers is something of a tradition for us.
Based on my 20 years of experience with the Alhambra football program, it appears to me that one of our ideas has been to avoid long bus rides for anyone when we schedule our nonleague opponents. We’re certainly willing to deal with long road trips whenever we make the playoffs. I recall that in 2021, we traveled 113 miles for our quarterfinal game at Hamilton High in Anza.
By the way, I’m speaking for myself here. We’ll see how everything turns out during the next several months.
@Ron Vrooman you know what, you are not wrong at all. I do think the newly realigned Almost league should consist of Alhambra, San Gabriel, Montebello, Schurr, San Marino, and South Pas (BG should join the Del Rio league) and the newly realigned Mission Valley league consisting of Gabrielino, Glendale, Hoover, Keppel, Mtn View, TC, Workman (with Arcadia, Monrovia, Arroyo, Rosemead, El Monte, South El Monte in a league (Rio Hondo)). These’d definitely be a fair game.
For their nonleagues, I do think it is time for Coach Bergstrom to no longer play TC-no longer much of an advantage for Alhambra. Even LC has been building and beating TC, hence they would be a good scrimmage opponent for Alhambra with both being building programs. Just wondering, what do you really think of my previous suggestion they should consider nonleague opponents like Irvine, Canyon (Country), Claremont, Rio Hondo Prep, Westlake, Diamond Bar, Chino, West Covina? I think this would benefit their schedule honestly and I can see them competing with them (I’d too think Chino, Chino Hills, Don Lugo, Corona, maybe Eastvale Eleanor Roosevelt though some of those I mentioned would blow out Alhambra; I was an Apache alum. and Arcadia has played opponents that blew them out though I’ll admit, even at their youngest years back 2013-2014, they blew out Alhambra)
@ Anonymous: Thanks for the info. Congratulations to him on producing a beautiful piece of work!
@ NWO: I haven’t heard anything on my end, but that would be a welcome change if it can be accomplished. It’s been around a decade since Alhambra last had a youth football program.
@ Moor: Here’s to newfound glory. We’re working on the case right now.
Please keep in mind that we came close to turning things around last year despite having a relatively inexperienced squad which was also a little short on talent. We lost three of our regular-season games by only one score, and we trailed San Gabriel by only four points late in the third quarter of our playoff game before losing, 28-17.
I’m cautiously optimistic about our prospects for the 2023 season; I believe that you are going to see an improved Alhambra team.
@ Moor4life: I’m with you there. I’ve always admired everyone who places team, school, and community above opportunism and unadulterated personal ambition. Those are values that are essential to the success of both an athletic program and the individuals who are a part of it.
For example, a key to Coach Encinas’ success at San Gabriel High the last couple of years was his ability to develop team cohesion and instill in his players a deep sense of school and community pride. (We’ve promoted those very same values at AHS, but results do vary at times.)
Coach Encinas, unlike his two walk-on predecessors, was also able to exploit two built-in advantages that San Gabriel has long had: a feeder youth program (the Rosemead Rebels) and facilities that are among the best in the West San Gabriel Valley.
The successes that Alhambra has managed to achieve in the recent past have come despite the lack of a community youth football program, and despite having facilities that have been deficient for decades. And, yes, the occasional player defections haven’t been helpful, either.
However, our coaches will continue to do their best with the athletes who come out to play for us. All of them, coaches and athletes alike, are to be commended.
@ New Secret Fan: Well, OK. Those are some interesting takes, but I believe your league realignment is a little off. In my opinion, Keppel should be in a football league with schools like Glendale, Hoover, Workman, Gabrielino, Mountain View, and Temple City. The Aztecs would probably win a few games in a league like that if they can show any kind of improvement under their new coaching staff.
I think that Alhambra is just fine staying in the Almont League; we won the league title as recently as 2019, and we made the playoffs in 2021 and ’22.
Our inability to win a couple of close games at home during the final stretch resulted in a subpar (4-7) finish last year. But, I guess that our good fortune in being given a playoff spot anyway made up for our not going to the postseason in 2018 despite an 8-2 record. (Things even out sometimes…)
If AHS were to move to a different league, I believe we’d be competitive with South Pasadena and San Marino, both of which have had a few halfway decent to pretty good seasons in recent years.
Keep coming up with ideas for reconfiguring our local high school leagues; it’s an idea that’s long overdue. Thanks for your fandom.
Funny that you make a personal attack to an objective statement
I value lower division football, but I also support quality football. CIF has randomized lower divisions making championships akin to lottery .
San Gabriel was in division 13 because they weren’t that good and they won the lottery by being placed as high seed in D13; if they were a little better they would have been in D12 and likely not won a game!
I respect their accomplishments, but have to take them in context . Again, Alhambra 2019 would have beaten San Gabriel 2022 46-7
My comment was in response to post stating how much more Coach Encinas had accomplished than Coach Bergstrom, and my point is that this was an artifact of CIF changes. They were 3rd place in Almont last year !!!
Lower division football is to be valued , unfortunately CIF playoff scheme categorically defined the worst teams as the lowest division and allows administrators and fans to think they are good when they aren’t .
Btw I get tired of the ER vs La Serna feud posts too
@ Detatched: Glorifying ? MVN thrives on the lower divisions. They are by far the most interesting. Schools not loaded with transfers with the lower divisions filled with 40 teams and more. Without the posts from the Almont, Montview, Rio Hondo,605,Del Rio etc. MVN would be dead. All we would have is La Serna and El Rancho fans cat fighting and thats a bore. BTW your posts are almost always about lower division teams you phony hypocrite. You do the most glorifying!!
New [(secret)] Moors, (Ayala) Bulldog, and Wolfpack Fan
Wishing Alhambra the best. My respect to them though I never went there, nor do I really have associations with them but respectfully, maybe it’s time for their nonleague to change and beef up some. It’d be nice if they schedule nonleague opponents such as Irvine, Westlake, Rio Hondo Prep, Canyon (Country), Chino (with La Cañada for scrimmage)-I think this would be a fair schedule for them over TC, SEM, HH Wilson. I do think they, South Pas, Keppel, Glendale, Herbet Hoover, San Marino should be in a league together. Time for the current Almont league to go and reshuffle (BG belongs to Del Rio League now)
Coach Bergstrom Has Underachieved, has been at Alhambra 10 years coming up done a good job rebuilding it but we need a coach that will take it to the next level like a kevin encinas who in a shorter time frame rebuilt SG from the ground up, won a cif title and the SG program was in worse shape than Alhambra when Eric took over.
Now that’s a poster! Great job by the coaching staff and anyone they had helping them; I’ve always liked the powerful-looking helmets, and those colors can’t be beat.
Five of Alhambra’s first seven games will be at home, which is a setup that will give the Moors every opportunity to build momentum for those last three league games on the road. “Find A Way” indeed.
@ New Secret Fan & FBFan: This has been an interesting discussion; I especially appreciate your insights concerning high school football programs in our region. I wish your favorite teams the best of luck this season (unless they play Alhambra, of course).
@Ron Vrooman yes that is true, and CV barely beat Arcadia by a point last season, which reminded me of when they beat Arcadia 23-7 back 2012 when Arcadia was favored to win. 2019 was still 4 years ago, they may not be the worst team with LC stepping up but I doubt how same CV will have been back 2019 season. Also, the fact that that was a senior-heavy team, they have not been the same, so I doubt how much they will compete with Monrovia, Burroughs, Muir, Pasadena, but sure can compete with Arroyo. It otherwise is true the pandemic did negatively altered/impacted every team.
@ FBFan: Alhambra High’s football and baseball teams are somewhat better off financially than you suggest, since both programs benefit from having active booster clubs. All money raised by the booster clubs go to the specific teams they’re supporting.
I’m not aware of any booster clubs for the other sports at AHS, but then I don’t have time to follow them that closely. However, the marching band also has a booster club, which is great.
Any money that’s contributed directly to a team or to the AHS Athletic Department must be divided among all of the sports at the school; this arrangement is the result of a Title IX (gender equity) settlement that was negotiated around 15 years ago.
I wouldn’t call that socialism, though, because sports that don’t get a lot of fan support should receive at least minimum funding. But in my book, there’s nothing wrong with democratic socialism (with the emphasis always being placed on the “democratic” part). I don’t know of anyone who has ever refused their Social Security or Medicare benefits, which they and their employers have paid for, by the way.
Getting back to high school athletics, sports like basketball, softball, wrestling, tennis, swimming, water polo, and badminton are just as legitimate as those that draw the largest crowds. And don’t forget, girls’ flag football is now a thing in the CIF Southern Section, so we can add that to the list.
@ FBFan: My guess is that West Covina is aiming to be competitive, and soon, in the San Antonio League, which includes Chaffey High (located in Ontario), Don Lugo (in Chino), and Claremont. Don Lugo has been excellent in the past and is reportedly good this year, and the Claremont Wolfpack might be on the upswing as well.
While the Bulldogs will be taking on a couple of league opponents who are located in the Inland Empire, those schools are just a few miles inside San Bernardino County. West Covina’s location in the East San Gabriel Valley makes this arrangement possible, if not ideal.
The toughest road trips in this version of the San Antonio League will likely be the ones the Bulldogs will have to make to Don Lugo and Chaffey during the late Friday afternoon commute time.
In doing some research for my reply here, I was struck by the fact that several leagues in the East San Gabriel Valley/western San Bernardino County area have only four teams. What is CIF’s rationale for having such small leagues when league games are all-important for making the postseason and getting good playoff seedings? Could it be that the goal of the Southern Section is to give every school a greater probability of winning a league title at some point?
I believe that every league should have at least six teams. I mean, why play a ten-game regular season, with six or seven nonleague games, when overall records don’t seem to have much value anymore?
Getting back to the subject of West Covina, the Bulldogs could help round out any one of these smaller leagues if things don’t work out well in the San Antonio League.
In my opinion, West Covina could easily join the Valle Vista League (Diamond Ranch, Los Altos, Northview, San Dimas); the Sierra League (Chino, Covina, Pomona, Rowland); or the Hacienda League (Diamond Bar, Nogales, Ontario, Walnut). I think any of those leagues would make slightly better sense geographically for West Covina, and the Valle Vista League would be the best fit in terms of competitive balance.
As for Castaic, it faces a tough challenge competing in a league with West Ranch, Valencia, Golden Valley, Saugus, Canyon, and Hart (which has been down the last two years but is usually good).
But, as you said, Castaic’s options are extremely limited. The closest schools to the north are way over the mountains in Kern County, and I don’t think that being in a league with the likes of Westlake, Oaks Christian, and Calabasas is realistic, either. I don’t believe any other possibilities are feasible at all.
Castaic’s best chance right now is to play .500 ball (or something close to that) and get an at-large berth in a lower playoff division thanks to a strength-of-schedule boost. The current playoff format gives schools like Castaic at least an outside shot at making it to the postseason.
@ New Secret Fan: Your latest suggestions for reorganizing the Almont, Mission Valley, Pacific, and Rio Hondo Leagues make considerable sense from the standpoints of competitive balance and geography.
The main difference I have with you here is that I’d keep Crescenta Valley in the Pacific League. While the Falcons have really struggled the last two years, it should be remembered that they went 14-0 and won a Southern Section title in 2019. I’m banking on the idea that the 2021 and ’22 seasons were a Covid-influenced aberration, because the Falcons were a consistent playoff contender for years before the pandemic hit.
Unfortunately, I get the feeling that revising some of the leagues in a meaningful way isn’t a priority for the CIF Southern Section, just like scrapping its wacky playoff format or cracking down on recruiting aren’t priorities, either. We can keep submitting proposals, though; somebody might listen someday.
@Ron Vroman continued…..
This would also be for football only much like other areas are doing, therefore transportation is once a week as opposed to other sports that play 2-3 times a week.
Besides, football is the sport that drives the bus so that should take priority. Perhaps it doesn’t in Alhambra district since it’s well documented that the football teams have to share all of their fundraising efforts with the other activities but that level of Socialism is a conversation for another time.
@Ron Vroman,
While you are correct about Geography, you have to take a look at what other areas are doing around you. Orange County and Mt. SAC have all gone competitive equity balances. This is why West Covina is in a league with schools
in Ontario. And in OC, you can have a North OC team traveling to South OC.
If you care about Geography, then the foothill region- which is the one that my new leagues is comprised of- you must really rethink the boundaries set by CIF. Should teams in Valencia be in the same region as teams from Bellflower? Probably not, but that’s the way CIF has it aligned. If you’re Castaic, you can’t like being in a league with West Ranch but you have nowhere else to go. Maybe with the Burbank schools???
Correction: @Ron* Vrooman, not Rom, I just saw this typo from earlier this afternoon
@Rom Vrooman you are not wrong at all. Some schools more distance away are honestly better off competing as nonleagues like examples you mentioned. I do think Almont and Mission Valley should be as follows:
Almont: Alhambra, Montebello, Schurr, South Pasadena, San Marino, San Gabriel
Mission Valley: Gabrielino, Mark Keppel, Mountain View, La Puente, Workman, Temple City
Pacific: Arroyo, Monrovia, Burbank, John Burroughs, John Muir, Pasadena
Rio Hondo: Arcadia, Rosemead, Crescenta Valley, La Canada, El Monte, SEM
Bell Gardens should replace La Serna in the Del Rio league, and La Serna and La Habra indeed should move into Gateway league in exchange for some of the deflated Gateway league teams into Del Rio and Freeway.
@ New Secret Fan & FBFan: Well, both of you have worked hard on your proposals to revise many of the leagues in the CIF Southern Section. Your collective efforts are impressive.
I believe that many of the projected matchups make sense, but it’s a big mistake to group together schools that are extreme distances apart. (For example, putting Castaic in the same league with Gahr and Cerritos.) Road trips of that magnitude would add to fuel and maintenance costs for school district bus fleets, and they would be a logistical nightmare.
Geography must be taken into consideration, along with competitive balance, when it comes to reorganizing the leagues that need to be changed the most. Looking at the issue close to home, the Almont, Mission Valley, and Del Rio Leagues could all be improved by moving a grand total of 3-5 teams.
As I suggested before, Mark Keppel should go from the Almont League into the Mission Valley League, and in return, Arroyo should move from the Mission Valley into the Almont. La Serna needs to move from the Del Rio League into a stronger league that includes, say, Downey and Warren. Then, one or two schools that are located reasonably close to Whittier and Pico Rivera could replace La Serna in the Del Rio.
Changes definitely need to be made to some of our high school football leagues, but I think that those changes can be accomplished locally and more practically.
(Sorry for my late replies, I been pretty busy lately)
@Ron Vrooman yeah true, while Monrovia hasn’t been the same since 2015, I don’t see their talent going anywhere either, same with Arroyo since 2017-2018. It is true Monrovia and Arroyo would kick Arcadia , Rosemead, and the two El Monte schools mentioned easily. Arroyo in Almont and Keppel in Mission Valley, but the thing, they still won’t have competitive edge against El Monte, SEM, or Rosemead. Arroyo would compete greatly with Alhambra, SG, and the three Montebello schools though.
Oh yeah, I saw for Alhambra adding La Salle, which is a good first real test. That is a good first step. Still would honestly be better if they scrap TC off their schedule, which is what I mean. At one time, Arcadia had a tradition of booking the likes of St. Francis, Monrovia, and Temple City to their schedule then after 2011, they cut TC off their schedule, after 2012, St. Francis, and following the 2016 season, then Coach Policky decided to move on from Monrovia, where after 2016, Crescenta Valley cut St. Francis off their nonleague, 2016, Verdugo Hills, and 2017, La Cañada (although Arcadia did put Monrovia back in for a little but as we can see, that now is gone again and CV for now has LC back also for now); if Arcadia and CV have been able to end ties with their once respective rivals, so can Alhambra with TC-it would benefit Alhambra when the time comes to move on. Alhambra has already dominated TC in recent years, and they can beat SEM and HH Wilson; South Pas would be a good potential on tier though; still would be better for the two to be in a same league.
@FB Fan I agree Claremont would easily blow out Alhambra, but I think Alhambra and Irvine can compete. Claremont would be better scheduling the likes of Muir and Burroughs to their nonleague. Even for the Moors to replace TC with Troy or Canyon Country could be a good start. Like how I think Corona Centennial should get out of their league with their district opponents for easily mowing them down, at one point, even Valencia should’ve gotten out of the Foothill League before they deflated in recent years after 2019, I agree LS should get out of the Del Rio League. Bell Gardens would be able to compete with everyone else in that league. LS being in the league with Warren, Downey, Paramount would be better, they and La Habra can all compete with each other (LH should also get out of their league).
For “Rio Hondo/Pacific- Crescenta Valley, San Marino, Arcadia, Burroughs”, I do think with Burroughs rebuilding, they can beat CV, SM, Arcadia, so that may not be a perfect alignment. Burbank, CV, Arcadia, SM would make sense, but the “League 5- La Canada, Crescenta Valley, Paramount, Schurr, Burbank, Arcadia” would be a more competitive edge for them all. I do think Arcadia can still beat San Marino most of the years. “League 6- Montebello, Castaic, Whittier, San Marino, Gahr, Cerritos” would be a fairer edge for SM. “Almont/Rio Hondo/Pacific- San Gabriel, Alhambra, La Canada, Pasadena Poly, South Pasadena,(Combine middle/bottom Almont with Middle Rio Hondo)” definitely looks fairer than “League 7- Alhambra, Pioneer, El Monte, Pasadena Poly, Lynwood, Santa Fe” in some respects. “MVL/Rio Hondo- Gabrielino, SEM, EM, Rosemead, Temple City, Keppel, Hoover (Bottom feeder league)”, SEM, EM, Rosemead would easily beat the lower half. I do like your “Suburban/SGV/DRL- Downey, Warren, La Serna, Paramount, La Mirada, Mayfair (La Serna out of DRL. You have a league equal to the Baseline in the I.E. if not better)”, and “League 1- Warren, Downey, West Ranch, La Serna, Pasadena, Saugus”; “League 2- Valencia, Golden Valley, Mayfair, La Mirada, Muir, Hart”; “League 3- Monrovia, Bellflower, Norwalk, Burroughs, Dominguez, Canyon” (Do you mean Canyon as in Canyon Country?)
OR you can redo the whole thing the way the Mt. SAC region did by using CalPreps ratings with 6 team leagues and completely forego traditional rivalries and proximity One thing to keep in mind about the west end schools of the Mid Valley area is that the teams from the Foothill League are a part of their CIF league alignment area as well. So you could be looking at trips to Six Flags. If you did it this way, it would look like this:
League 1- Warren, Downey, West Ranch, La Serna, Pasadena, Saugus
League 2- Valencia, Golden Valley, Mayfair, La Mirada, Muir, Hart
League 3- Monrovia, Bellflower, Norwalk, Burroughs, Dominguez, Canyon
League 4- So. Pasadena, El Rancho, Arroyo, San Gabriel, Bell Gardens, California
League 5- La Canada, Crescenta Valley, Paramount, Schurr, Burbank, Arcadia
League 6- Montebello, Castaic, Whittier, San Marino, Gahr, Cerritos
League 7- Alhambra, Pioneer, El Monte, Pasadena Poly, Lynwood, Santa Fe
League 8- Hoover, Rosemead, Gabrielino, South El Monte, Artesia, Temple City
League 9- Glenn, Mountain View, Glendale, Firebaugh, Keppel
@ New Secret Fan,
You’re all over the place but have some good takes too. Alhambra playing Claremont and Irvine? No. Bell Gardens to the Del Rio with La Serna? Heck No!
But some of your other league realignment takes make a lot of sense. It would actually have to start with La Serna going in the league with Downey and Warren. From there, adjustments to the Del Rio can be made with the old Suburban league teams and the current Almont league teams while the 605 league goes through a major overhaul. Got to also keep distance slightly in consideration but not too much. Demographics and socio economics of the neighborhoods need to be a MAJOR contributor. Here’s a shot in the dark kind of league alignment for the teams in the West region of the Mid Valley area.
Suburban/SGV/DRL- Downey, Warren, La Serna, Paramount, La Mirada, Mayfair (La Serna out of DRL. You have a league equal to the Baseline in the I.E. if not better)
DRL/Suburban/605- Cal, Santa Fe, Norwalk, Bellflower, Gahr, Cerritos (Combine the middle teams from DRL and Suburban while adding top 605 team)
605/SGV- Lynwood, Firebaugh, Pioneer, Glenn, Artesia (A bottom feeder league of the 605 area)
DRL/Almont/MVL- El Rancho, Whittier, Bell Gardens, Schurr, Montebello, Arroyo (Combine middle DRL and top Almont teams. Move Arroyo out of MVL).
Almont/Rio Hondo/Pacific- San Gabriel, Alhambra, La Canada, Pasadena Poly, South Pasadena,(Combine middle/bottom Almont with Middle Rio Hondo)
Rio Hondo/Pacific- Crescenta Valley, San Marino, Arcadia, Burroughs
Rio Hondo/Pacific- Monrovia, Pasadena, Muir, Burbank. (No reason Monrovia shouldn’t have been in this league a LONG time ago)
MVL/Rio Hondo- Gabrielino, SEM, EM, Rosemead, Temple City, Keppel, Hoover (Bottom feeder league).
@ New Secret Fan: Your suggested revisions of the “Almost,” Mission Valley, and Rio Hondo Leagues sound pretty good; I think they could work out well if CIF actually took you up on them.
All three of those league alignments would be competitive, in my opinion. The only potential flaw that I can see, at least for the short term, is that Monrovia and Arroyo might still be too good for the competition in the revised Rio Hondo League. Both schools have just made coaching changes, but it’s likely that they’ll retain a significant edge in athletic talent.
A simple fix that would promote competitive equity in both the Almont and Mission Valley Leagues would be to trade Mark Keppel for Arroyo. In other words, both leagues would remain the same, except that Mark Keppel would be in the Mission Valley League and Arroyo would be in the Almont League. Keppel might have competitive games against Gabrielino and Mountain View from the very start, and Arroyo would have some stiffer challenges than it currently does during league play.
I don’t believe Alhambra’s nonleague schedule is going to change dramatically in the near future unless we start dominating our opponents. This year’s game against La Salle, which I believe will be our first, could be a real test. South Pasadena has typically been a difficult foe, and playing the Tigers is something of a tradition for us.
Based on my 20 years of experience with the Alhambra football program, it appears to me that one of our ideas has been to avoid long bus rides for anyone when we schedule our nonleague opponents. We’re certainly willing to deal with long road trips whenever we make the playoffs. I recall that in 2021, we traveled 113 miles for our quarterfinal game at Hamilton High in Anza.
By the way, I’m speaking for myself here. We’ll see how everything turns out during the next several months.
@Ron Vrooman you know what, you are not wrong at all. I do think the newly realigned Almost league should consist of Alhambra, San Gabriel, Montebello, Schurr, San Marino, and South Pas (BG should join the Del Rio league) and the newly realigned Mission Valley league consisting of Gabrielino, Glendale, Hoover, Keppel, Mtn View, TC, Workman (with Arcadia, Monrovia, Arroyo, Rosemead, El Monte, South El Monte in a league (Rio Hondo)). These’d definitely be a fair game.
For their nonleagues, I do think it is time for Coach Bergstrom to no longer play TC-no longer much of an advantage for Alhambra. Even LC has been building and beating TC, hence they would be a good scrimmage opponent for Alhambra with both being building programs. Just wondering, what do you really think of my previous suggestion they should consider nonleague opponents like Irvine, Canyon (Country), Claremont, Rio Hondo Prep, Westlake, Diamond Bar, Chino, West Covina? I think this would benefit their schedule honestly and I can see them competing with them (I’d too think Chino, Chino Hills, Don Lugo, Corona, maybe Eastvale Eleanor Roosevelt though some of those I mentioned would blow out Alhambra; I was an Apache alum. and Arcadia has played opponents that blew them out though I’ll admit, even at their youngest years back 2013-2014, they blew out Alhambra)
@ Anonymous: Thanks for the info. Congratulations to him on producing a beautiful piece of work!
@ NWO: I haven’t heard anything on my end, but that would be a welcome change if it can be accomplished. It’s been around a decade since Alhambra last had a youth football program.
Schedule graphic was done by @coachverstegen
Hey Ron, I heard a rumor that the Thunderbird youth program is coming back?.
@ Moor: Here’s to newfound glory. We’re working on the case right now.
Please keep in mind that we came close to turning things around last year despite having a relatively inexperienced squad which was also a little short on talent. We lost three of our regular-season games by only one score, and we trailed San Gabriel by only four points late in the third quarter of our playoff game before losing, 28-17.
I’m cautiously optimistic about our prospects for the 2023 season; I believe that you are going to see an improved Alhambra team.
2018 2019 we’re the glory year’s. It’s been all downhill
@ Moor4life: I’m with you there. I’ve always admired everyone who places team, school, and community above opportunism and unadulterated personal ambition. Those are values that are essential to the success of both an athletic program and the individuals who are a part of it.
For example, a key to Coach Encinas’ success at San Gabriel High the last couple of years was his ability to develop team cohesion and instill in his players a deep sense of school and community pride. (We’ve promoted those very same values at AHS, but results do vary at times.)
Coach Encinas, unlike his two walk-on predecessors, was also able to exploit two built-in advantages that San Gabriel has long had: a feeder youth program (the Rosemead Rebels) and facilities that are among the best in the West San Gabriel Valley.
The successes that Alhambra has managed to achieve in the recent past have come despite the lack of a community youth football program, and despite having facilities that have been deficient for decades. And, yes, the occasional player defections haven’t been helpful, either.
However, our coaches will continue to do their best with the athletes who come out to play for us. All of them, coaches and athletes alike, are to be commended.
@ New Secret Fan: Well, OK. Those are some interesting takes, but I believe your league realignment is a little off. In my opinion, Keppel should be in a football league with schools like Glendale, Hoover, Workman, Gabrielino, Mountain View, and Temple City. The Aztecs would probably win a few games in a league like that if they can show any kind of improvement under their new coaching staff.
I think that Alhambra is just fine staying in the Almont League; we won the league title as recently as 2019, and we made the playoffs in 2021 and ’22.
Our inability to win a couple of close games at home during the final stretch resulted in a subpar (4-7) finish last year. But, I guess that our good fortune in being given a playoff spot anyway made up for our not going to the postseason in 2018 despite an 8-2 record. (Things even out sometimes…)
If AHS were to move to a different league, I believe we’d be competitive with South Pasadena and San Marino, both of which have had a few halfway decent to pretty good seasons in recent years.
Keep coming up with ideas for reconfiguring our local high school leagues; it’s an idea that’s long overdue. Thanks for your fandom.
Funny that you make a personal attack to an objective statement
I value lower division football, but I also support quality football. CIF has randomized lower divisions making championships akin to lottery .
San Gabriel was in division 13 because they weren’t that good and they won the lottery by being placed as high seed in D13; if they were a little better they would have been in D12 and likely not won a game!
I respect their accomplishments, but have to take them in context . Again, Alhambra 2019 would have beaten San Gabriel 2022 46-7
My comment was in response to post stating how much more Coach Encinas had accomplished than Coach Bergstrom, and my point is that this was an artifact of CIF changes. They were 3rd place in Almont last year !!!
Lower division football is to be valued , unfortunately CIF playoff scheme categorically defined the worst teams as the lowest division and allows administrators and fans to think they are good when they aren’t .
Btw I get tired of the ER vs La Serna feud posts too
He had 2 good years with a underclassmen QB , that’s it!
@ Detatched: Glorifying ? MVN thrives on the lower divisions. They are by far the most interesting. Schools not loaded with transfers with the lower divisions filled with 40 teams and more. Without the posts from the Almont, Montview, Rio Hondo,605,Del Rio etc. MVN would be dead. All we would have is La Serna and El Rancho fans cat fighting and thats a bore. BTW your posts are almost always about lower division teams you phony hypocrite. You do the most glorifying!!
I let alone think they and Claremont would put up a game though I’d admit, Claremont will more likely defeat Alhambra comfortably
Wishing Alhambra the best. My respect to them though I never went there, nor do I really have associations with them but respectfully, maybe it’s time for their nonleague to change and beef up some. It’d be nice if they schedule nonleague opponents such as Irvine, Westlake, Rio Hondo Prep, Canyon (Country), Chino (with La Cañada for scrimmage)-I think this would be a fair schedule for them over TC, SEM, HH Wilson. I do think they, South Pas, Keppel, Glendale, Herbet Hoover, San Marino should be in a league together. Time for the current Almont league to go and reshuffle (BG belongs to Del Rio League now)
Stop it! Stop glorifying D13 success
And SG looks like a mess now
They beat Keppel maybe SG but not Montebello and BG
Hopefully our top players don’t transfer out like they normally do
Coach Bergstrom Has Underachieved, has been at Alhambra 10 years coming up done a good job rebuilding it but we need a coach that will take it to the next level like a kevin encinas who in a shorter time frame rebuilt SG from the ground up, won a cif title and the SG program was in worse shape than Alhambra when Eric took over.
SEM- W
Wilson- W
Temple City- W
La Salle- L
South Pas- L
Bell gardens- W
Keppel- W
Schurr- L
Montebello W
San Gabriel- W
7-3. Their schedule shouldn’t put them in too high of a division. Coach Bergstrom is one of the more under rated coaches in the mid valley area.
Now that’s a poster! Great job by the coaching staff and anyone they had helping them; I’ve always liked the powerful-looking helmets, and those colors can’t be beat.
Five of Alhambra’s first seven games will be at home, which is a setup that will give the Moors every opportunity to build momentum for those last three league games on the road. “Find A Way” indeed.